Orion Entrance Control is an American manufacturer located in New Hampshire. Orion provides the world with technically superior, architecturally pleasing optical turnstile solutions for high-rise buildings, government centers, education campuses and corporate headquarters.
Chuck Harold & Guests
Full text of radio show
Please forgive any typos, this podcast was transcribed by my typing pool comprised of volunteer stalkers.
Chuck: Hi, welcome to Security Guy Radio, so what’s your name?
Steve: Thanks Chuck. My name is Steve Caroselli.
Chuck: What do you do Steve?
Steve: I’m with Orion Entrance Control Incorporated. We are a turnstile manufacturer located in Laconia, New Hampshire.
Chuck: Oh, a manufacturer, I’m glad to hear that, because we don’t see many manufacturers. USA?
Steve: USA 100% owned and operated.
Chuck: All right. Excellent and what you guys do?
Steve: We manufacture optical turnstiles, so turnstiles with any kind of glass barrier, metal barrier, moving barriers with optical sensors to deduct passage of motion as you walk through the lane.
Chuck: All right. I’m very intrigued I. we looked at this before we started filming and we’re going to see some really, really cool stuff. How big is your company?
Steve: So, the company is just turning seven years old this year. We are in it and we ship internationally and we’ve been shipping to about nine different countries last year for Amazon. We’re their corporate standard there.
Chuck: Oh, good now are turnstiles to cover the new standard?
Steve: Oh, turnstiles have been the standard since about 09 /11.
Chuck: Well, but nobody has them because they are super expensive, right.
Steve: Yeah, they are super expensive, that’s one of our favorite parts, but no, they’re really become the standard for most corporations, high-rise buildings, campuses, a lot of Universities. We’re starting to see them at hospitals we work with Children’s hospital in Philadelphia.
Chuck: Yeah, the days of the pen and paper access control are way gone. I mean IC companies even that they can afford it they still don’t go that way. I don’t get it, but maybe they just don’t understand the technology.
Steve: Oh, yeah. Yeah, there is a lot of education in what we do. We spend a lot of time working with the architects, with the consultants, specifically the integrators as well.
Chuck: Now back in the day, I worked at Fox and Disney for ten years, so we had a big check book. We could buy turnstiles; we never did, with a lot of social reasons for it in other words, we didn’t think the employees would like it. We thought the employees might think it’s too restricted. Now, that’s a movie environment, of course, so a little bit more liberal, let’s say, right. Do you find there is a social resistance to turnstiles?
Steve: There can be.
Chuck: As opposed to financial.
Steve: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, some campuses as for an example, we did Facebook’s campus about four or five years ago and there was a big bush not include barriers, so there’s a lot of education, we showed a lot of educational video prior to the implementation also can be insurance. We really focused on two things, when you go from a. from a non-turnstile environment to a turnstile environment that’s one set of education another is going for a pure optical with no barriers to a barrier environment. We do a lot of education around that as well.
Chuck: So, when we were looking at this year’s ago, one of the prompts were, were proprietary systems. So, my check point access control, wouldn’t integrated with the turnstiles, so guess what we’re not going to do it. Is that really an issue nowadays?
Steve: Yes. It really is that’s a great question though, so we. I tell people we’re basically a door on your access control system. The purpose of this door is to validate that one credential whether it’s a badge, facial recognition or biometrics of some sort, one passage, so that’s the whole point of an optical turnstiles to validate and stop tailgating.
Chuck: So, I can use head, I can use check point; I can use any access control systems I want.
Chuck: your system is smart and it can say that’s fine. We’ll plug it in your reader; we’ll plug in whatever it is.
Chuck: Do you manufacture reader as well.
Steve: We do not.
Chuck: Okay just a turnstile that’s good.
Steve: So we’re specifically an optical turnstile company…
Chuck: It’s actually a specialty…
Steve: That allows us to integrate with everybody on the planet.
Chuck: All right, that’s great. You want to show us some gadgets, this is my favorite part.
Steve: I do, absolutely.
Chuck: All right let’s get the tripod going here.
Steve: So, some of the simple things as visitor management as an example. A lot of people issue a bar code, so we can take any bar code and scan the turnstile with the visitor and walk through. You just stay there, I’ll come right back out. This particular unit is our swing arm unit, it’s one of our most popular and it’s set up of for free exits so I can walk-out with no issues. We can then take the same unit, if I can find my badge.
Chuck: Now barcode easier to defeat or…?
Steve: Yes. You know, so the issue with bar code is you can literally photo copy that send it to your phone et cetera. What people will use this for is visitor management primarily. So, if you wanted to email somebody a barcode on a phone, they could use their phone or a lot people use a paper badge because they are inexpensive. So, Standard Prox, HID Prox badge, same read head you can walk through.
Chuck: Same reader?
Chuck: Oh, interesting, now.
Steve: So, this is an IBC reader, International Bar Code and they have integrated the antenna from HID or in dollars right into those.
Chuck: So, push those bars here for me are those, how rich are those bars?
Steve: So, the bars are actually very slack, by fire code you should be able to push through with five to 15 pounds of pressure in either direction.
Chuck: Oh, that’s when it’s open, oh, that’s locked.
Steve: The fire department wants to be able to get through.
Chuck: Oh, interesting, okay.
Steve: So, I can push through, but we cause them alarm, which you probably can’t hear right now, because of the show, but it’s an alarm it’s flashing.
Chuck: Right. Okay, I didn’t know that. Now, in the old days weren’t they rigid?
Steve: The old barriers were definitely rigid, but the optical have always been push through. So, would you have a breaking feature, one step back so I can show you…?
We do have a breaking feature to allow in certain circumstance to lock the units. So, it’s an electronic break.
Chuck: [Indiscernible] [0:05:22].
Steve: We do that a lot on our Swing Glass; the image on the back wall is Amazon’s location in China, so we lock those positively.
Chuck: Does it do fail safe, fall secure.
Steve: Feel safe all the time.
Chuck: So, it will open, I mean you could push on it, but it will go to open in some kind of fire situation.
Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah. So, we’re connected to the fire system. We also have our software here that you can all open feature, our Staples headquarters is an example, wanted to be all open in a non-fire related emergency bomb threat, active shooter, so we put a button right on the software that open everything. Yeah.
Chuck: Right. Excellent all right, what else you could show me?
Steve: I’d like to take a moment and show you the software. One of the thing that’s neat about Orion…
Chuck: Not sure what’s going to come out, we’ll a give try in that.
Steve: We’ll give it a shot, we’ll talk it through. One of the nice things that neat about Orion is own a 100% of our technology.
Chuck: That’s little unusual, isn’t it?
Steve: Yeah, it is. We design our board so we don’t use a BLC. The boards are built in New Hampshire and then we write our own software, so the algorithms that run the turnstile as well as what the guard sees and for service and support, so for an access control installer they’ll be able to go through, go into the lane, this is what a guard would typically see to let people in and out, or disable for the…
Chuck: That’s very user-friendly.
Steve: It really is. The IO screen allows you to turn the volume up and down up from here, so I’m going to turn that up since it was a little bit quiet for our demonstration there. You can see the activity of all of the IO whether or not the fire input’s active, so I had a call from a Department of Justice a few weeks ago, saying “Hey”, 6:30 in the morning I’m the only one there to answer the phone. Hey the lanes are open we don’t know why. I walked them through the software, they saw that the fire input was off and realized immediately what had happened. Turned the fire input back on and away they go. The nice thing about our software again is we count everything at both directions all the time, so we’re able to push out data like how many people are in the building right now, whether or not a turnstile needs to be serviced based on user counts. We connect to building automation systems for instance. One example of accounting scenario is at the Penn State University, they wanted to go to the Rec centers, put turnstiles in and then push out to a student APP how busy the Rec center is, so that a student can look at the APP and go, “Oh I’m going to Rec center A instead of B,” because B has got a 150 people and then A has got 20, so neat applications like that.
Chuck: Oh, interesting. Can they use the APP to gain access?
Steve: They can on a different type of APP.
Chuck: Yeah. They have a bar code reader. Like at the airport.
Steve: Exactly. Yeah.
Chuck: Oh, interesting really cool.
Steve: So, we do a lot of that as a matter of fact, this unit we build for airport fast boarding, so it has the bar code reader in it again with the HID reader for the attendance and the status indicator light.
Chuck: So, you mentioned Facebook? Who else did you say…?
Steve: Yes, Amazon. Yeah, we’re the Cargo Global Corporate Center for Amazon, The Department of Justice. We do a lot of Universities, we do MIT, Yale.
Chuck: Right, so here is one I’m impressed about. You don’t have a 1000 square foot booth
Steve: No. We don’t.
Chuck: Those are expensive.
Steve: They are.
Chuck: All right so [indiscernible] company’s financially solvent and frugal…
Steve: Absolutely, yeah.
Chuck: Makes a lot of sense.
Steve: Yeah, we are over a 100% debt free. We believe in debt-free running company actually from day one.
Chuck: See, how I guessed that. You put up one of these gigantic mega booths
Steve: Oh, very expensive.
Chuck: They’re expensive.
Steve: Yes and we think we show very well we are typically very busy at the shows.
Chuck: Now I travel a lot and go through all of airports. I’ve seen these scanners when I go to gates. How do I know it’s yours any branding?
Steve: No, not all, so we, because we are very architectural specific, we don’t currently have any at airports we’re testing units with a couple of different airlines, that hasn’t really come to America strong yet, but there are in test with several door manufacturers…
Chuck: How many of your people, you know, they kind of worked most of the times what I’ve seen, right.
Chuck: It’s got to work all the time.
Steve: Yes, so we do a lot of the competition not being used at the airports, so it’s a new concept for airports.
Chuck: But, as we saw with off camera you showed me this next one this, the main…
Steve: Yeah. I will show you this, so we are highlighting a number of new technologies. I pointed out that the bar code that’s pretty standard for visitor management. This next unit we’re actually showing a new technology, facial technology from a company called Blueline. What’s neat about Blueline there are a bunch of ex-police officers that came over the technology, the primary programmer was with the army and developed this program on the side, retired became a police officer brought it to his Chief and they developed this company, Blueline.
Chuck: Wow, fabulous.
Steve: So, I’m a technology junkie, so I really love when something works and facials have been difficult to get running.
Chuck: Yeah, its hit and miss you know.
Steve: Yeah, yeah, so I saw this I St. Louis about three years ago for the first time and it worked right away, so I’ve tracked with them and I’ve invited them into our booth to show their technology.
Chuck: Oh, excellent, all right.
Steve: Oh, I will show you real quick if can.
Chuck: Now this is a really wide shot. We will do wide shot first and then I’ll zoom in on that screen up there, yeah.
Steve: Yeah and the camera [indiscernible] so, the screen is there, you can see I go green and sees me and I walk through I got turnstile activity in motion.
Chuck: Pick up your microphone and say it again.
Steve: So, turnstile activity in motion, so you can literally walk through…
Chuck: You know what I’ll do, let me shoot the screen while you are walking in, right.
Steve: Okay. Oh, come on in and you can shoot the screen, I’ll back out and then come back through.
Chuck: All right, so there you are on the screen.
Steve: ….my head down, I’m going to look at the camera, you see it pick me up. My name is on there and I come right in.
Chuck: That’s amazing.
Steve: Yeah. It’s a beautiful technology.
Chuck: I mean you didn’t really have to stop. You just kind of walked out and went through.
Steve: Yeah. So, in motion is what we look for in turnstiles, because your typical turnstile is about a one to two second transaction. So, we need very fast authentication to not break that stride.
Chuck: Yeah, we did a study at Fox at the gate like 20 years ago and we had to get people through faster 5,000 visitors in cars. Right, hand your ID blah, blah, blah, so it went to a little simple reader and we decreased the time we took to get in there by 30 second a person, which equaled hours.
Steve: It’s amazing.
Chuck: Yeah, equals hours of delay.
Steve: Yeah, it adds up very quickly.
Chuck: This is really neat stuff.
Steve: So, why don’t we exit, we’ll exit through Swinging Glass unit, you can follow me there right through. So, you’ll notice it stays open between transactions, so you don’t have to; a lot of people on the old days we used to call have an optical mode that we turned into put the barriers away during high traffic situation.
Chuck: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steve: So, what we’ve done is, we’ve added a staking and a lot of people mode. So, that as it sees a lot of activity they will just stay open, as long as it sees valid activity, so you don’t have to wait for the barriers to transact.
Chuck: Now if I was going to do it and I was rich. I’d buy two of these and I’d create a Sally port.
Chuck: People will be mad at me, they’d wait line, but I don’t care could you set that up if you want to do.
Steve: Yeah. That’s a fantastic question, so we do that for unmanned entrances an optical turnstile by design typically you have a guard standing by the side.
Chuck: Usually, yeah.
Steve: Because you can push through, right. We can positively lock this and do that, so we created a Sally-port for an unmanned entrance in San Francisco for McKesson’s world Headquarters. We had this unit actually. Four or five lanes upstairs in their main lobby and in their lower lobby when you came off the subway they had a hallway they wanted to use. So, we put these two of these in a row and added a machine vision camera in the middle to do the band trap. So, it’s all linked together as one system, so you badge your card here, you go in and you know what I mean, Chuck?
Chuck: Yeah, yeah
Steve: So, yeah, we absolutely do that. Same scenario if you think about exit breach in an airport coming out, so we use machine vision imaging to validate where the activities coming from and then the turnstile validates one person in the lane at a time.
Chuck: This usually an in turnstile…?
Chuck: And an out turnstile or not?
Steve: We’re bi-directional, so I always encourage people to have multiple lanes. One you can create a bottleneck at least two lanes and people are kind so automatically they’ll move out the way for each other, but a turnstile will handle, you know, 30 people a minute.
Chuck: The reason I’m asking you because I always wanted to know who is in my building at any second.
Chuck: Fire evacuation whatever, right?
Chuck: I assume you can set this up to read in and read out…?
Chuck: Or not read out if you wanted to?
Steve: Yeah, so we’re showing here all the turnstiles are read in free exit.
Chuck: Free exit.
Steve: What you’ll notice on the other side we’re already set up to accept the exit reader.
Chuck: Yeah. Well what do most companies pick?
Steve: We do all of that…
Chuck: Most companies pick exit read?
Steve: It definitely depends on the scenario, so your typical high-rise building in New York City multi-tenant is going to be a card in free out. When we go into a campus environment like Zurich Insurance or Amazon they are carding in and out.
Chuck: See I don’t want in and out because I want to know if you are actually at work when you said you weren’t, you know what I mean?
Chuck: That kind of thing.
Steve: Yeah, absolutely.
Chuck: Interesting, well it’s a cost analysis.
Steve: Yeah cost analysis and the anti-piggybacking so within the access control system I can’t pass my card back to you. Anti pass back.
Chuck: Now, let’s talk about the integration part. Well you know what first let’s see this little gadget here. This is kind of amazing.
Steve: This is really cool.
Chuck: We are going to wide shot for this.
Steve: Yes, please do that.
Chuck: This is not your reader.
Steve: No, this is the Morpho Safran WAVE tower. We took all the guts out of it and made it really sexy on the turnstile, so essentially you can wave your fingers one of the four finger prints and it grand access through.
Chuck: That’s amazing.
Steve: Then I’m at a free exit back out.
Chuck: I mean you did really you did it very quickly.
Steve: Yeah, so we again we look for things in motions, so I can walk to the turnstile badge in and walk through.
Chuck: That is amazing.
Steve: Yeah, so those are the kind of technologies we look to integrate with because that’s what our customers are looking for. We try to take more of an advisory role. We talk about what’s the score card before selecting a turnstile company that’s one of the things we talk about is; do you want the technology, can you integrate with any of the newer technology that’s something we do really well.
Chuck: Yeah, now I’m a big guy with two [indiscernible]
Chuck: So, can I hook this up, so it’s a big pain for the employees, but too bad. I was an evil Security Director by the way. I didn’t care if the police are mad about it, right, so I’d say you are going to scan your finger prints and you are going to scan your card.
Steve: Yeah. Well, this can be set up card reader right in the front and your finger prints.
Chuck: Right, which makes it easy?
Steve: Or we can connect facial and finger print, so any number of technologies.
Chuck: Again what most people do it in your business?
Steve: Yeah, most people are looking for ways to make it easier user experience again 95% of our single factor authentications; it’s your high rise building that’s moving a lot of people in fast.
Chuck: But, an easier user experience is not a more secure user experience.
Steve: It’s a challenge.
Chuck: I know, yeah.
Steve: We have that conversation. The architects are pushing for easy and fast. The CEOs are pushing for get people in to work fast, so we’re always looking out for things like elevator destination dispatch, so badge a card calls the elevator car and tells you what car to go to, things like that as you pointed out, you save seconds off of the time, equates of the hours of the activity.
Chuck: Exactly, exactly, very, very neat.
Steve: Yeah, so those are the things we look at. We some of the things we do differently Chuck, is because I come from an integration background and a lot of my people come from an integration background we understand the business.
Chuck: You guys get it.
Steve: We get it.
Chuck: That’s very important. Most people don’t get the integration part.
Steve: Yeah. So, not only we get the integration part, but we get the project management part, so when we get an order for turnstile at Orion. We immediately turn out a drawing that says here is what we think you wanted to buy, sign off if that’s correct. Lane widths, style, colors, we’ll send our fit and finish, but then we also have a conference call with all the stake holders and we walk them through here is what the process is going to look like, so we know, you need floor templates at certain time. The electrician needs certain wiring at a certain time and we’ll walk you through that process. In my experience in the industry the typical project goes you give me a purchase order, you expect turnstiles in 12-weeks. We tell you along the process and our shipping time is more six to eight weeks, but we. every week you’re going to get an update from us and depending on it’s that the end user and we have currently we’re doing Rolex’s headquarters in New York city and we’re on a weekly conference call with them with all the other stake holders, so they know where we are.
Chuck: Yeah. That’s the way to do it.
Steve: Any deliveries and it’s especially with construction sites like that. We’re just in time delivery, so we are the last people to get installed and it’s the highest feature in the lobby.
Chuck: Do, if we lose all power in the building, any battery back up on the stuff to go…
Steve: There can be.
Chuck: Get everybody out of the building?
Steve: Yeah, so we partner with Life Safety power as our power supply company and they have battery options, so we can drive this open in this case if there was no battery backup you drop out ounces of pressure to push this away. Our sliding units that open like in this direction those are all spring balance so they automatically retract.
Chuck: Now If you’re listening to this on the podcast, go to YouTube, you can see all these, these are really architecturally very, very stylish…
Steve: Yes, thank you.
Chuck: Turnstiles and again if I wanted marble on top there and I wanted to pay for it you’re going to do it for me.
Chuck: Yes, it’s great.
Steve: Yeah we do marble, we do Brass we do painted. We had a customer come in last year and said can you do this again. They had a 1000 lane project in South America. We can do it all day long. You want us to paint turnstiles we do that in our shops.
Chuck: Yeah excellent. Name of the company?
Steve: Orion Entrance Control Incorporated.
Chuck: Your name, sir.
Steve: My name is Steve Caroselli. I’m the President and Founder of the company.
Chuck: How do we get a hold of you?
Steve: You can call us at 603-527-4187 or see us on the web at www.orioneci.com
Chuck: Thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate it.
Steve: Thank you, Chuck. It’s real pleasure.
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